Interview with Michael Cromartie

Family North Carolina Magazine—November/December 2008

On Air With . . .
Michael Cromartie is vice president of the Ethics and Public Policy Center in Washington, DC, where he directs the Evangelicals in Civic Life program as well as the Religion and Media program. He is a senior advisor to the Pew Forum on Religion in Public Life, a senior fellow at Trinity Forum and an adjunct professor at Reformed Theological Seminary. In 2004, President Bush appointed Michael to a four-year term on the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom. He was reappointed to the commission this year, where he now serves as vice chair. Michael is the editor of over a dozen books, including Religion in Politics in America and A Public Faith: Evangelicals and Civic Engagement.

The following is a transcript of an interview with Michael Cromartie conducted by NCFPC president, Bill Brooks, on September 8, 2008, for the NCFPC’s weekly radio program, “Family Policy Matters.” Michael discusses the role of Evangelicals in public life, including the importance of Evangelical voters.

This interview can be heard in its entirety here: Listen (.mp3) — (Real)

Bill Brooks: There is a lot of confusion today over the definition of “Evangelical,” although we hear the term used quite a bit. Is there one way to define “Evangelical,” and if so how do you define it?

Michael Cromartie: Well, there are several ways to define “Evangelical,” Bill, but the way I would define it would be to say that classically, an Evangelical Christian is a conservative Protestant, who emphasizes the fact that the Gospel, the Christian message, is good news. It’s a person who feels very strongly that God’s love for us is a message that should be shared with others, that it’s a message of profoundly good news, and that the good news must be spread. The word “Evangelical” became important when there was what in this country was called the “fundamentalist modernist controversy,” which was very conservative Protestant Christianity in arguments with liberal Protestantism in the early part of the 20th century. Evangelicalism grew out of that [battle] as a break off from both liberal Protestantism and from harsh fundamentalism, so “Evangelical” really is a short way of saying a person who believes in the Gospel.

BB: Earlier this year, a group of well-known Evangelical leaders released a document called the “Evangelical Manifesto.” A number of Christian leaders signed it, while others chose not to do so. Did you sign it, and if you did not, why?

MC: You know, Bill, I didn’t sign it. I was asked to, and I know the drafters of the document very well. But I read the document pretty carefully, and I thought that there was much in the document that I agreed with—over 90 percent. But the reason I didn’t sign it was that I thought that there were some things in there that because we’re in the middle of a political season, I did not want to attach my name to a document that looked like it was trying to make a political statement, one way or the other. I felt like the core message of the “Evangelical Manifesto” was that… the word “Evangelical,” instead of being defined the way I defined it a moment ago, is being defined totally as a political phrase. [In other words] that a person who is an Evangelical is a right-wing Christian only. Well, I think the Gospel transcends politics, and I think that that message has certainly got to be said—the Gospel message is more important than just political identity. However, having said that, there was so much in the document that I felt like could be politically confusing in the middle of a political year that I decided not to sign it.

BB: The Manifesto has not quite had the impact that the authors may have intended it to have. Why do you think this is?

MC: Well, I think the reason for that is one of the reasons I gave to one of the authors of the “Manifesto,” which is about once every year or two, Evangelicals, or Christians of any stripe, will come together and come out with some kind of manifesto or declaration. And I’ve signed many of them, and to be honest with you, none of them have a very long life. They get written up, and a lot of work is put into them for over a year and then they get mailed out to people, and then people move on with their life. And it’s not very often that a declaration or a manifesto really has a long term impact and … I’m really actually kind of tired of signing manifestos once every two years because I’m not sure how many people pay attention to them.

BB: What are some of the common misconceptions about Evangelical Christians that need to be corrected based on your research?

MC: Well, interestingly, it follows the questions we just had, which is that one of the common misconceptions about American Evangelicals is that they are just a political interest group, that their only interest is in having political power. That’s a terrible misconception in our mainstream media, who just think that Evangelicals are politically power hungry, and…it is a shame that when a Christian message is confused with political opinions, then there’s something that’s very precious that’s lost. But I think one of the most common misconceptions about Evangelicals is that people think that Evangelicals are harsh, that they’re intolerant, that they’re not kind, and I think that’s a terrible misconception. And there’s real research that shows that some of the most generous, most magnanimous, and most tolerant people are American Evangelicals.

BB: Historically, what role have American Evangelicals played in helping to shape our culture and in the political process as a whole?

MC: Well, American Evangelicals have been very active for several centuries now, even before America was founded, in the abolition of the slave trade and the great work of William Wilberforce. And as you know, Bill, the numbers of Evangelicals in America are somewhere between 20 and 25 percent of the population, [so] Evangelicals have had a great influence on ideas about the nature of the family, the meaning of marriage, about morals we all should have in our families and in our lives but also in caring for about political and social justice. It comes as a surprise for a lot of people that Evangelicals actually were concerned about civil rights in this country and were concerned about the abolition of slavery.

BB: A recent Pew Forum survey found that the percentage of Americans who believe that churches should not express their views on political issues has increased slightly in the past four years. The survey has been interpreted by some political pundits as “proof” that religious conservatives have lost their political influence. Is this an accurate interpretation of the findings in your opinion? How important are Evangelicals to this election?

MC: I don’t think it’s an accurate interpretation. I think what [the poll] means to say—and I think it’s an important thing to discuss—is that it’s the duty of churches to encourage their citizens to be good citizens and be publicly involved, and concerned about society and about politics. It’s not the purpose of pastors to preach political specifics to the congregation, and I think because of that, some have said that people ought to calm down a little bit. However, the fact of the matter is we’ve just seen in the last week here in our nation’s history with these last two conventions, there again are millions of people who call themselves religious conservatives, who are concerned about the future of this country. . . .

BB: But is it your impression that Evangelicals are probably more interested in policy than they are in politics?

MC: Well that’s right, there has been certain policies being enacted and being put in law, and the ruff and tumble in politics is not what drives them everyday. They are just concerned about the state of our culture and the state of our families, and about the national security of this country, and they’ll leave it up to politicians to work out the details.

BB: Michael, as Christians we know that the Bible is transcendent Truth that applies to every area of our lives. But non-Christians, especially in today’s world where secularism is so prevalent, don’t understand biblical truth. So, how do we as Evangelical Christians defend biblical values in a public square that often has no place for the Bible?

MC: Well, there’s a resource for doing this, and in theological terms, it is called making appeals to general revelation or to common grace or to natural law. Let me define. By the phrase “general revelation,” I mean to say that the Bible is what Christians have understand to be a special revelation, but in Romans 1, Paul indicates that there are things that we can see by observing things in nature that we can point to, so that if a person doesn’t believe in special revelation, you can make appeals to them through general revelation. All I’m suggesting is that when you move into the public arena, you often times are trying to build coalitions with people who don’t agree with you religiously but have the same moral concerns you do. And so you find ways to make appeals about the nature of the family or when life begins, and you ground those appeals in reason and in things in nature. And the reason you do it that way is because you know that for instance they don’t accept your view of biblical truth, so you find other ways to come to them by observing things in creation, and you say, ‘well, would you agree about the following,’ and then you would come up with examples. So there are ways to build bridges with people who don’t accept biblical truth but are concerned about the state of our society.

BB: Is it also an appeal to, not only common sense, but to what research shows us time after time, and that is when you follow correct principles, you get correct results in public policy?

MC: That’s right. Common sense is another way of putting it, and in the reformed Christian tradition it’s called ‘common grace.’ God let’s the rain fall on the just and the unjust alike, and we both know when to get in and out of the rain, and the fact of the matter is there are things that you can appeal to based on common sense, based on sociology, on anthropology, on history—things where you actually make a case. And I have been at the Ethics and Public Policy Center for 23 years here in Washington, and I have learned a lot from looking through this whole question of what is natural law and what C.S. Lewis observes in several of his books, [which is] that you can make appeals to things revealed in nature, and then you can bring others around to your position.

BB: We recently had the privilege of interviewing Dr. Ravi Zacharias on this program, and he talked about the importance of prayer to the future of a nation and the biblical duty of Christians to pray for our leaders, even those that we may disagree with on policy issues. How important is this concept to the civic engagement of Evangelicals? In other words, how does it relate to our involvement in government and in society in general?

MC: Well, it’s very important, and I’m grateful that Ravi Zacharias reminded you and your listeners of [this]. Ongoing intense prayer for our nation and the world is something that we’re enjoined to do in and out of season. I think it’s also important, as you suggest, that we even pray for those we disagree with, and…if we get too politically stirred up in our political opinions and get too overly wrought, we ought to pray for our opponents, and pray for people we disagree with because, I think, in a sense prayer not only draws our concerns to God but also softens us in the way we see our opponents. And by that I mean, I think it’ll help us to become more charitable and more caring toward people we have intense disagreements with. I think that we can never be reminded enough of the need to pray for our nation, pray for our neighbors, pray for our families and to pray for our political leaders in a political season and out of a political season.

BB: Michael I know that as you have looked at the public policy scene, as well as the church, over 23 years, that you’ve seen a lot of changes. What would you say is the most important thing that Christians should keep in mind as they approach public policy?

MC: Well, I think that there’s an important balance that we always need to keep, which is that God is sovereign, God is in control of history. We have a duty to love our neighbors and to care for our neighbors, and part of that expression of neighbor-love means to care about political issues and social justice. All the while, I think one of things most important for anybody concerned about public policy issues is to remember this point about God’s sovereignty—that at the end of the day, the dead are not raised by politics, [and] that the message of the Gospel actually transcends politics as the most important message there is for all of us. So I think it helps us to keep perspective, especially if you work in a public policy think tank, [and] to remember that there are some things in life more important than politics. Even though it’s what I spend most of my time thinking about.